[[ Reminder that the Leaf Village this person is defending is the same that succumbed to the demand for the body of the Hyuuga clan leader even though Kumogakure was at fault for trying to kidnap a child for her eyes.
Doesn’t matter if they got a fake– they heeded the demand. ]]
[[ I really hope people like that don’t say that shit to their friends. “Uhh, you never implied you were manipulated, so I’m pretty that didn’t happen to you.”
That mindset is just so disgusting. Expecting victims to just know better and to avoid it– putting all the blame on them instead of the people malicious enough to use them for their own gain. ]]
no, they’re in support of the one who comitted it
[[ I mean, if you wanna just say words for the sake of saying words, go off. I’m in support of not blaming a victim for the actions people in power manipulated him to do, dumbass.
And how would Danzo convince village to kill civilans in their beds without alerting Uchihas?
Nothing I’ve been saying is about convincing the villagers to attack the Uchiha. Danzo would’ve just simply told his personal ROOT unit to do a surprise attack on the Uchiha, alone and conveniently collected in their own district, under surveillance, to enact the genocide. Stop reaching.
And, apparently, village is full of psychopaths. Great.
You really just out here being stupid for no reason.
And I blame Itachi for the actions of Itachi, no one else
Blame him for thinking isolating Sasuke was the right path and manipulating him into a near murder-suicide, then. The massacre is not Itachi’s fault and it will never be, people higher and older than him had been orchestrating it beforehand. He was manipulated and used and you fundamentally cannot dispute this.
It really says something when you try and try again to shift all the blame onto Itachi instead of the council, Danzo, or Hiruzen, the people ACTUALLY responsible for this and toying with Itachi. The novels are there, read them.
I will vote all I want :3c ]]
[[ Okay you’re here to be stupid again.
No one can guarantee that they would succeed, if Itachi wasn’t on their side (and Tobi ofc)
You are forgetting Danzo already has them sequestered into a district and the Uchiha themselves are all bunched up, every single one of them, in preparation for their own attack. If Itachi was able to launch an attack the Uchiha did not predict, who’s to say the ANBU as a whole would not have been able to? Two (2) people took down the whole of the Uchiha clan without the screaming, and fighting, etc, spilling out past the district (which is already far from the regular populace.) If Danzo had the ROOT kill the Uchiha, it would’ve been much faster and deadlier, since there’s more people at once versus the Uchiha. This was a surprise attack.
And Hiruzen will have to explain to his people how the hell did hundreds of people died and who did it –
All Hiruzen has to say is that the Uchiha became a matter of village security because they were planning a coup, which is the truth. A lot of the villagers already dislike the Uchiha (and you love to remain ignorant to that fact), and believe they are responsible as a whole for the Kyuubi incident. It was convenient as hell that it was treated as a ~tragedy~ because they got Itachi to do it, but Konoha could certainly get away with painting it as a necessary measure to save the rest of the village.
And do I need to remind you that Itachi was supposed to be smart and wise beyond his years? (‘Hokage level’, pfft).
This came out of Hiruzen’s mouth. SARUTOBI HIRUZEN’S mouth. Do you just pretend everything a character says is 100% indesputable fact? Hiruzen says this because he liked Itachi’s attitude and how he fundamentally didn’t agree with the Uchiha. Of course you’d say super nice things about a person you trusted and who you thought absolutely agreed with you. Is Itachi smart? Yes- but so are so many characters. Hiruzen himself was a prodigy, too. Intelligence =/= making the right and most logical decision. They’re people, not readers like we are. They have things called morals and beliefs and ethics that don’t necessarily agree with ours.
Characters can and will be wrong and will say things based on their own beliefs.
And does he ever expresses regret?
And here you go again telling me you’re blind. Itachi expresses regret in the fashion of leaving the village and considering himself a criminal. Itachi expresses regret in that he knows he failed and this is how the rest of his life is going to pan out. Itachi expresses regret in the fashion he wants Sasuke to kill him as punishment, that he deserves for his little brother to end his life.
Does he ever implies that he was manipulated? No.
SMH this is CLASSIC victim-blaming. ]]
[[ Really– the only thing you could possibly fault Itachi for concerning the massacre (ignoring his mistreatment of Sasuke, because that is an entirely different topic), is for his slight position of privilege over other Uchiha. A position which…is Danzo’s fault anyways lol.
Itachi has no idea that Uchiha clan members aren’t allowed to be ANBU or Hokage, or any other position that the elders/council consider too ~close~ to the village’s center. He never learns this, but he makes ANBU anyways because Danzo is so freakishly obsessed with him. So he just ends up thinking it’s because he doesn’t have that Uchiha “pride” and that’s what’s holding the other clan members back. It’s why he adopts that mindset of “hey maybe if you weren’t talking about being Uchiha all day, you could achieve positions like mine.” Without this knowledge of the positions actually being barred completely, of course he’d come to that conclusion.
Shisui, too– is allowed to be a special ANBU under Hiruzen. Broke of them both the mold as far as the laws barring Uchiha, but under extremely specific (and entirely negative) circumstances.
If Itachi hated the whole of the Uchiha completely, he’d be too happy to divulge information about the Uchiha to the Council. He in fact, refused most of the time. For a double agent, he was really shitty at it. He didn’t tell his own clan information, and he refused to tell Danzo information.
And you know what Danzo did when he didn’t get what he wanted from Itachi? He killed an Uchiha and had two of his ROOT members take turns impersonating him so that he could get information on the meetings. Itachi is someone Danzo considers useful to get what he wants. And if Itachi refuses? Well fuck him, Danzo will get what he wants anyways. Itachi had very little stopping power. ]]
[[ Buddy, you’re really killing yourself with the idea that if you took out Itachi the massacre wouldn’t have happened. Itachi was a really convenient scapegoat.
None of my arguments are in support of the massacre, and they never will be. The Uchiha did not deserve to be sequestered to a corner of the village, nor monitored, nor killed. I’m simply not foolish enough to believe the massacre was preventable by one single factor. Itachi was a child the top brass used to get away with genocide, had Itachi not existed Danzo simply would’ve carried out the genocide with his own ANBU/ROOT members after convincing the village they were ‘dangerous’ and a problem that needed ‘solving’.
[[ Did you just…miss the point? You really have no reading comprehension do you? My entire point is that if they hadn’t convinced Itachi to enact out the massacre (which is actually a government sanctioned genocide), they would’ve gotten the ANBU to do it.
The genocide was going to happen whether Itachi agreed to do it himself or not. Danzo wanted the Uchiha dead, and his options were either convince Itachi to do it, or to do it himself with the men under his command.
I said before– the genocide is BS. The Uchiha didn’t deserve it, not one bit. But acting as if Itachi alone could’ve prevented it is absolute utter bullshit and places all of the blame on a thirteen year old boy who’s PTSD is being used against him, instead of the greedy adults in power who have influence over him.
Itachi did not hate the Uchiha like you think he did. He was jaded over the more loud clan members who wanted justice. He thought their methods were wrong but never thought that killing them was the answer. Danzo convinced him that they would spark the flames of war, something Itachi was already afraid of to begin with.
Stop blaming a child for something adults are responsible for. ]]
I’ve theorised before about something where Suigetsu is actually keeping an eye on Orochimaru for Kiri, but this makes it seem even more interesting. This is the scroll with which Mei confronts the treacherous officials. This is also the scroll Suigetsu gives Mitsuki, letting him expose Shizuma.
We find out later that Orochimaru was nudging the coup plan along (see below, under cut), and therefore that it’s Orochimaru’s plan Suigetsu has sabotaged by giving Mitsuki that information. Did he also cooperate with Mei? Is that how the scroll has been passed around?
It’s clearly not Orochimaru who has his highest loyalty, or he wouldn’t have first tried to dissuade Orochimaru, and then outright sabotaged the plan. So perhaps he really is working for Kirigakure, a double agent seemingly acting for Orochimaru but actually acting for his homeland. (And he does call it home, when he’s talking to Mitsuki. He says he’s returned home for a mission.)
I think it was the other way around. That this was all a scheme on Orochimaru’s part to root out troublemakers and nudge Suigetsu to be more independent and responsible, and less”awful” as Mitsuki put it.
Hahaha no.
Orochimaru’s plan was stirring up trouble for his own ends. And he is not the higher moral influence on Suigetsu. He is not teaching Suigetsu to be better. He is not better than Suigetsu. He never was. And he never will be. Orochimaru has no moral compass and frankly it grosses me out that anyone would suggest he was using this as some kind of ‘teachable moment’ for Suigetsu.
Who, by the way, deserved better than to be working for him at all.
@hotmonkeelove
This was in no way any scheme of
Orochimaru’s to root out troublemakers, and being somebody that has
absolutely no moral compass, Orochimaru is the LAST person to be able to nudge
ANYONE in any ‘right’ path. There has never been any parental role played by this
man towards Suigetsu, and there never will be, because Orochimaru is a
character that is incapable of that kind of feeling. Whatever benevolence he
might show on the outside has always been proved to be a ruse, just a means to
get what he wants. We’ve seen throughout the series how easily he discards
those that are of no more use to him. Mitarashi Anko, the Sound Four and
Kimmimaro are a few.This opinion that he’s a benevolent ‘good’
person now, frankly, does nothing but insult Orochimaru’s character as a villain through and through– a cold-hearted
scientist that sees the entire world as his lab and the people in it as his
experimental subjects. He hasn’t ‘turned over a new leaf’, either. He hasn’t
‘turned good’. No. He’s just allowed to continue doing what he does, because
Konoha figures they could still be able to use him in the future should shit
hit the fan and they need resources. Orochimaru himself explains to Sasuke that
this is the reason they’re keeping him alive.It’s a shame, really. Orochimaru being
the cold bastard he is, who hasn’t really changed after everything that’s
happened, is what makes him a GREAT villain and a GREAT character. Dumbing him
down to being an all-caring fatherly/motherly/parental figure with absolutely
good intentions just because you like him and ship your characters with him and want to justify liking him is
just… awful character assassination of one of the consistently villainous
characters in the series. And one of the best, and most interesting, honestly.
[[ This, ladies and gentlemen, is why Orochimaru had to renovate all his bases. ]]
UchihaSavior 