Tag: uchiha itachi

staginstasis replied to your post:
Why do people think it’s cool to be anti-Itachi?…

Im not anti itachi or anything but I do honestly think he was a more interesting villain �� thats just how I am though. Not a fan of redemption archs it just seems like a cop out to make a bad character and then back pedal like that. Gimmi some good villains who are actually bad!!!!

[[ Here’s the thing though, and while it isn’t my intent to argue with you, you’ve used a line of logic that I see frequently from anti-itachi people, basically the idea that he was “always” presented as a villain. Itachi was a shitty, questionable villain to begin with, and I couldn’t see this until I started re-watching/re-reading. Hell, Itachi’s English voice actor was able to tell that Itachi was never truly evil, and he actually got a lot of emails trying to prove him wrong until the literal canon proved him right. 

There was no “back pedaling” done with Itachi, it was always there, and too many people ignored it and are choosing to ignore it now. 

This is highlighted first in the official episode he appears in. For someone who supposedly killed his clan on a complete whim, he openly states he doesn’t want to fight Asuma and Kurenai. Asuma even calls him out on it! It’s weird! You’re a highly wanted murderer, why are you acting as if you have mercy, etc?? And Kisame complains multiple times that Itachi just doesn’t let him fight/kill people and how his methods attract too much attention. Itachi wants to be low key, stealthy, and avoids hurting people, preferring Genjutsu instead. 

Sasuke in the hotel? Well, we can’t apply Classic™ Abuser logic here, because an abuser seeks to isolate their target and will willingly chase them. Itachi’s not chasing anyone. While Sasuke is 100% NOT at fault for what happened to him here, Itachi would have never hurt Sasuke like this had Sasuke not shown up. Again– I’m NOT placing blame on Sasuke for showing up, but it is important to recognize that Itachi didn’t come here with the intent of hurting Sasuke further. Wrong place, wrong time, and he was forced to “prove” he was still a villain in Sasuke’s eyes. 

And no one noticed how fishy the flashbacks were, during the VOTE fight? How there was clearly some tension going on between Itachi and his Father, how Itachi immediately drops to his knees and begs for forgiveness when he realizes Sasuke’s witnessed him showing actual murderous intent. That’s a huge fuckin’ deal. 

It’s another sign that we DON’T know the real reason the massacre happened– something is UP with Itachi and eventually we will get to find out. 

Criticize Itachi for treating Sasuke as a thing to protect, criticize him for his plan to get Sasuke to kill him and be a hero, criticize him for the multiple times he’s used genjutsu to make him relive his trauma, etc. But please don’t pretend he was better off as a “true villain”, or that the reveal was “out of nowhere”/”not hinted at” or “backpedaling.” The signs were always there. 

There isn’t a shortage of villains in Naruto who are actually bad people– why does Itachi need to be one of them?? ]]

[[ Just to clarify, Itachi didn’t pick birds because “uwu goth aesthetic”, he picks birds purely because no one expects birds, and a sudden flock of crows in your face is going to confuse you WAY MORE than a substitution log/common replacement item.

It wasn’t about being cool/showing off, it was about effectively confusing his enemy and making them panic through a method no one’s tried before, and no one is generally expecting. ]]

‘None of my arguments are in support of the massacre, and they never will be’ – no, they’re in support of the one who comitted it. And how would Danzo convince village to kill civilans in their beds without alerting Uchihas? And, apparently, village is full of psychopaths. Great. And I blame Itachi for the actions of Itachi, no one else. Which is killing defenseless people and being remorseless murderer, traitor, liar and a coward. Enjoy your fave. And never become a politician or vote.

no, they’re in support of the one who comitted it

[[ I mean, if you wanna just say words for the sake of saying words, go off. I’m in support of not blaming a victim for the actions people in power manipulated him to do, dumbass. 

And how would Danzo convince village to kill civilans in their beds without alerting Uchihas?

Nothing I’ve been saying is about convincing the villagers to attack the Uchiha. Danzo would’ve just simply told his personal ROOT unit to do a surprise attack on the Uchiha, alone and conveniently collected in their own district, under surveillance, to enact the genocide. Stop reaching.

And, apparently, village is full of psychopaths. Great.

You really just out here being stupid for no reason.

And I blame Itachi for the actions of Itachi, no one else

Blame him for thinking isolating Sasuke was the right path and manipulating him into a near murder-suicide, then. The massacre is not Itachi’s fault and it will never be, people higher and older than him had been orchestrating it beforehand. He was manipulated and used and you fundamentally cannot dispute this. 

It really says something when you try and try again to shift all the blame onto Itachi instead of the council, Danzo, or Hiruzen, the people ACTUALLY responsible for this and toying with Itachi. The novels are there, read them. 

I will vote all I want :3c ]]

‘they would’ve gotten the ANBU to do it’. No one can guarantee that they would succeed, if Itachi wasn’t on their side (and Tobi ofc). And Hiruzen will have to explain to his people how the hell did hundreds of people died and who did it – there’s only so much you can pretend isn’t happening. And do I need to remind you that Itachi was supposed to be smart and wise beyond his years? (‘Hokage level’, pfft). And does he ever expresses regret? Does he ever implies that he was manipulated? No.

[[ Okay you’re here to be stupid again. 

No one can guarantee that they would succeed, if Itachi wasn’t on their side (and Tobi ofc)

You are forgetting Danzo already has them sequestered into a district and the Uchiha themselves are all bunched up, every single one of them, in preparation for their own attack. If Itachi was able to launch an attack the Uchiha did not predict, who’s to say the ANBU as a whole would not have been able to? Two (2) people took down the whole of the Uchiha clan without the screaming, and fighting, etc, spilling out past the district (which is already far from the regular populace.) If Danzo had the ROOT kill the Uchiha, it would’ve been much faster and deadlier, since there’s more people at once versus the Uchiha. This was a surprise attack. 

And Hiruzen will have to explain to his people how the hell did hundreds of people died and who did it –

All Hiruzen has to say is that the Uchiha became a matter of village security because they were planning a coup, which is the truth. A lot of the villagers already dislike the Uchiha (and you love to remain ignorant to that fact), and believe they are responsible as a whole for the Kyuubi incident. It was convenient as hell that it was treated as a ~tragedy~ because they got Itachi to do it, but Konoha could certainly get away with painting it as a necessary measure to save the rest of the village.

And do I need to remind you that Itachi was supposed to be smart and wise beyond his years? (‘Hokage level’, pfft).

This came out of Hiruzen’s mouth. SARUTOBI HIRUZEN’S mouth. Do you just pretend everything a character says is 100% indesputable fact? Hiruzen says this because he liked Itachi’s attitude and how he fundamentally didn’t agree with the Uchiha. Of course you’d say super nice things about a person you trusted and who you thought absolutely agreed with you. Is Itachi smart? Yes- but so are so many characters. Hiruzen himself was a prodigy, too. Intelligence =/= making the right and most logical decision. They’re people, not readers like we are. They  have things called morals and beliefs and ethics that don’t necessarily agree with ours. 

Characters can and will be wrong and will say things based on their own beliefs.

And does he ever expresses regret? 

And here you go again telling me you’re blind. Itachi expresses regret in the fashion of leaving the village and considering himself a criminal. Itachi expresses regret in that he knows he failed and this is how the rest of his life is going to pan out. Itachi expresses regret in the fashion he wants Sasuke to kill him as punishment, that he deserves for his little brother to end his life. 

Does he ever implies that he was manipulated? No.

STOP EXPECTING VICTIMS OF MANIPULATION TO KNOW BETTER. 

SMH this is CLASSIC victim-blaming. ]]

[[ Really– the only thing you could possibly fault Itachi for concerning the massacre (ignoring his mistreatment of Sasuke, because that is an entirely different topic), is for his slight position of privilege over other Uchiha. A position which…is Danzo’s fault anyways lol.

 Itachi has no idea that Uchiha clan members aren’t allowed to be ANBU or Hokage, or any other position that the elders/council consider too ~close~ to the village’s center. He never learns this, but he makes ANBU anyways because Danzo is so freakishly obsessed with him. So he just ends up thinking it’s because he doesn’t have that Uchiha “pride” and that’s what’s holding the other clan members back. It’s why he adopts that mindset of “hey maybe if you weren’t talking about being Uchiha all day, you could achieve positions like mine.” Without this knowledge of the positions actually being barred completely, of course he’d come to that conclusion. 

Shisui, too– is allowed to be a special ANBU under Hiruzen. Broke of them both the mold as far as the laws barring Uchiha, but under extremely specific (and entirely negative) circumstances. 

If Itachi hated the whole of the Uchiha completely, he’d be too happy to divulge information about the Uchiha to the Council. He in fact, refused most of the time. For a double agent, he was really shitty at it. He didn’t tell his own clan information, and he refused to tell Danzo information.

And you know what Danzo did when he didn’t get what he wanted from Itachi? He killed an Uchiha and had two of his ROOT members take turns impersonating him so that he could get information on the meetings. Itachi is someone Danzo considers useful to get what he wants. And if Itachi refuses? Well fuck him, Danzo will get what he wants anyways. Itachi had very little stopping power. ]]

‘Even if he chose to stand with his clan, he simply would’ve been killed along with the rest of them. The massacre would have happened one way or another, Itachi’s cooperation be damned’. Please, read this again and just… think, ok? It’s just crazy that someone can actually think like this. No, it wouldn’t happen. You’re saying that murder of innocent people was impossible to prevent. Danzo is evil, Hiruzen is weak, and Itachi hated Uchihas. Take one of this out and massacre wouldn’t happen

[[ Buddy, you’re really killing yourself with the idea that if you took out Itachi the massacre wouldn’t have happened. Itachi was a really convenient scapegoat. 

None of my arguments are in support of the massacre, and they never will be. The Uchiha did not deserve to be sequestered to a corner of the village, nor monitored, nor killed. I’m simply not foolish enough to believe the massacre was preventable by one single factor. Itachi was a child the top brass used to get away with genocide, had Itachi not existed Danzo simply would’ve carried out the genocide with his own ANBU/ROOT members after convincing the village they were ‘dangerous’ and a problem that needed ‘solving’. 

Stop blaming a child for the actions of adults. ]]

‘If it wasn’t Itachi who started it, it would’ve been the ANBU under Hiruzen and Danzo’s command’. They wouldn’t be able to kill hundreds of people, half of them civilians without directly saying ‘I can kill any of you and there’s nothing you can do’. Do you think many people would like that? It’s not just one shinobi they got rid of, it’s entire clan. Other shinobis and civialians aren’t mindless idiots you think they are. Just how blind you have to be to say there was no choice? You’re scary.

[[ Did you just…miss the point? You really have no reading comprehension do  you? My entire point is that if they hadn’t convinced Itachi to enact out the massacre (which is actually a government sanctioned genocide), they would’ve gotten the ANBU to do it. 

The genocide was going to happen whether Itachi agreed to do it himself or not. Danzo wanted the Uchiha dead, and his options were either convince Itachi to do it, or to do it himself with the men under his command.

I said before– the genocide is BS. The Uchiha didn’t deserve it, not one bit. But acting as if Itachi alone could’ve prevented it is absolute utter bullshit and places all of the blame on a thirteen year old boy who’s PTSD is being used against him, instead of the greedy adults in power who have influence over him.

 Itachi did not hate the Uchiha like you think he did. He was jaded over the more loud clan members who wanted justice. He thought their methods were wrong but never thought that killing them was the answer. Danzo convinced him that they would spark the flames of war, something Itachi was already afraid of to begin with. 

Stop blaming a child for something adults are responsible for. ]]

Massacre was out of Itachi’s control? You pro-itachis go far to justify genocide. Sarutobi was alive, wasn’t he? And killing entire clan is sort of… not smth Danzo would be able to do and then hide it? it’s Itachi who made it possible. And the worst isn’t even that he betrayed his family. The worst is that he went and brutally slaughtered them at night without giving them any chance to defend themselves. He’s a coward. There’s hundreds of things that he could’ve done, but he chose mass murder

[[ LOL

Alright, let’s destroy you and any future people who still think it’s ok to be anti-Itachi as if he alone caused the massacre. I’m tired of y’all clogging the Itachi tag with your nonsense opinions. 

First things first: The massacre was out of Itachi’s control =/= the massacre was okay and a good thing.

You don’t even have basic reading comprehension. I hate the massacre, it’s awful, but I’m not so much of an idiot I think it’s entirely Itachi’s fault. You’re blaming a thirteen year old who had his fears used against him and was used as a scapegoat so the village could get away with murdering one of its founding clans. Itachi is not at fault for the massacre, he was a pawn. Just as much a victim of Danzo and Hiruzen. 

Sarutobi was alive, wasn’t he?

You poor, poor soul. You think he would’ve helped? Do you really trust Hiruzen that much? Let’s go over a list of things Hiruzen has done that are canon.

Your Precious Angel Sarutobi Hiruzen…

  • Agreed to Danzo’s idea of sequestering the clan into its own district, despite there being no existing evidence that the Uchiha clan were responsible for the Kyuubi Attack, other than an old tale about Madara. 
  • Owns and Maintains the ANBU squad that checks the surveillance cameras inside the Uchiha District 24/7. These cameras have been in place since the district was built.
  • Approved a 30% budget cut to the Police Force despite knowing full well Danzo was using the cut as a method to piss the Uchiha off and ‘prove’ they were dangerous and needed to be eradicated.
  • Allows Danzo to run free and without any check. The worst Hiruzen does is verbally scold him twice before the massacre. 
  • Knows full well that Danzo absolutely hates the Uchiha clan, yet again…takes no actual action to prevent him from messing with them.
  • Refuses to meet with the Uchiha for a full year after Shisui’s death. This is despite claiming that he doesn’t want them to die and they are friends from the previous war. He refutes any actual attempt at negotiation.
  • Is aware of the fact Danzo wants to kill them. This is in a direct manga flashback. Hiruzen ended up okaying the massacre. 
  • Only demotes Dnazo and disbands ROOT, but knows, and verbally admits, that Danzo will find a way to continue his work even if not officially, and he is going to do nothing else about it, despite being acting Hokage.
  • Depends on Itachi and Shisui alone to “fix” the Uchiha and make them complacent in their position and the rights they are not allowed, so that he does not have to lift a finger and actually work. He trusted teenagers…. to do the negotiations and hard work he as an adult, and as a leader of a village, to do.

And killing entire clan is sort of… not smth Danzo would be able to do and then hide it?

Do you honestly think Danzo was even attempting to hide it? It works in Danzo’s favor if the entire village thinks the Uchiha are dangerous. He already has a lot of the public believing that the Uchiha are at fault. Itachi is bullied in school because he’s an Uchiha. He’s discriminated when he works in ANBU because one of them lost his sister to the Kyuubi, and somehow it’s Itachi’s– and the entire Uchiha clan’s fault. Danzo wants this kind of outcry to be public, he wants to be lauded as a hero for exterminating the Uchiha. He got the best he could, the clan is gone and no-one in the public thinks negatively of him. Danzo is the same man who let out the secret that Naruto was the Jinchuuriki, purely so people would hate and fear him and he could be considered a savior for killing Naruto in the future.

And the worst isn’t even that he betrayed his family. The worst is that he went and brutally slaughtered them at night without giving them any chance to defend themselves. He’s a coward.

You really are, just…missing the whole point, aren’t you? The massacre was scheduled and orchestrated. If it wasn’t Itachi who started it, it would’ve been the ANBU under Hiruzen and Danzo’s command. 

There’s hundreds of things that he could’ve done, but he chose mass murder

See, this is what I hate about you anti Itachi people. You always act as if Itachi acted completely on his own, independent of other people’s pressure and manipulation. As if he just up and one day said “yeah, i’ll kill them that’s the only option lol” and planned the whole thing himself.

Danzo has been manipulating Itachi Uchiha since he was seven years old.

Itachi has had an Aburame stalking him since he graduated the Academy and met Danzo. Danzo wanted Itachi specifically. An Uchiha, a clan he hates, but Itachi showed so much skill and promise that Danzo would much rather have that skill be working under his name. 

Danzo does everything in his power to speed up the process to get Itachi into his clutches. Itachi’s sensei won’t allow him to enter the Chuunin exams? Go to Hiruzen and speak harshly about the sensei, and convince Hiruzen to not only let Itachi take the exams– but to take them alone.

Uchiha not allowed in ANBU? Well, strike that for this one particular Uchiha. Danzo wants him badly.

Age restriction to join ANBU? Come on Hiruzen please just lower it by one year I really need this Uchiha to be working under me. 

Danzo knew about Itachi’s fear of mass fighting and bloodshed. He used it to his advantage, told Itachi the safer option was for himself to murder the clan as opposed to a fight breaking out. The fighting would break outside the clan, spill into the streets…enemy nations would see this and seize the opportunity to attack the Leaf…and Itachi would bear witness to the bloody scene he saw when he was four years old. 

Itachi wants more than anything to prevent mass fighting, so to him, scared as he is, it sounds better to be known as the rogue Uchiha who killed his clan, rather than the rest of the village being scared that they’re next. Is it logical? No! But if you actually cared for one second and stepped into his shoes and thought about it from his point of view, you could see how he would come to that conclusion. 

So, let’s recap.

  • Danzo has been having one of his ROOT members tail Itachi since he was seven.
  • Danzo has pushed for Itachi to take the Chuunin exams….alone.
  • Danzo has pushed for Itachi to be made an exception into the ANBU role, and for the age restriction to be pulled down a year.Danzo has pressed Itachi for information from the clan meetings. When Itachi refuses, he murders an Uchiha and has two ROOT members take turn impersonating him and attending meetings. 
  • Danzo has Shisui murdered, because Shisui’s plan of using KotoAmatsukami would have actually worked.
  • Danzo preys upon Itachi’s fear of a war that involves the whole of the village and other villages, to convince Itachi that the only viable solution is for Itachi to kill them so the other clans do not grow suspicious or weary.

Itachi did not choose mass murder. Itachi was manipulated into the ‘choice’ because he was a child who had fears and vulnerabilities that were preyed on. There are people with more power and influence than Itachi and he was merely a victim of them. 

Even if he chose to stand with his clan, he simply would’ve been killed along with the rest of them. The massacre would have happened one way or another, Itachi’s cooperation be damned. 

So again….the massacre was out of Itachi’s control.

**And a helpful edit by my friend Tai, the village got away with the Uchiha Clan Genocide because publicly, it’s considered it’s Itachi’s fault. A person killing their own family is a massacre, another system enacting a family wipe is a genocide.  ]]